interview with orlando chirino (april 2006):
(...) [evaluation of the Bolivarian process] In the first place, today Venezuela is provided with a government that’s independent and autonomous in relation to imperialism. In the second place, its constitution, which was approved by the Venezuelan people, is an important advance for a process of transition toward socialism, thanks to a new autonomy of powers, numerous victories in terms of human rights, the new freedom for trade unions, the increased number of social missions with the creation of free community clinics (“Mission Inside the Barrio”), with the literacy campaign among the poor (“Mission Robinson”)... In short, there are various victories that are very important. But we’re still inside a capitalist framework, where private property is respected and where most of the means of production remain in private hands, as is the case with the large banks, which earn fantastic sums based on operations on the order of financial speculation. Because of that, at the trade-union level, we’re demanding participation in the activity. Nevertheless, we’re not even getting involved at the bottom, we’re demanding direct control of the utilities and the property. At this level, it can be said that there’s a “confrontation” between a democratic government that respects private property and us, who are planning a profound change in the relations of production. But in relation to the previous governments, the Bolivarian government is deeply democratic and the most progressive of all.
(...) the result of the most recent legislative elections, some trade union by-elections, or disturbances in the barrios express the fact that we’re seeing a kind of decline after 7 years of government. The workers are starting to demand more. There are enormous expectations, for example, in the area of the control of production, especially in the companies where the work is more insecure. But let’s say that there’s a certain uneasiness among the people and some anxieties, parallel to the popular support for the government.
(...) At present, there are three essential elements in the national debate. First, the process of growing bureaucratisation which the country recognises, and the anti-trade union practices; in the second place, corruption; and in third place, the conservative posture of some ministers, mayors, or governors. All this when we’re in the presidential re-election year! People at the grassroots are demanding more participation and the end of “dedocracy” [1]: the revolution, the process, must be intensified. The two governmental organisations, PODEMOS and the MVR are very bureaucratised and their leaders are the new rich of this country. In spite of this and these conflicts, we’re fighting for the re-election of President Chávez, which is an important part of this struggle. It’s still necessary to keep up support and struggle to maintain Hugo Chávez as president in order to guarantee the continuity of the process.
(...) [co-management] the government started to restrain the co-participation process: above all in the petroleum and electrical sector, arguing that it involves the strategic sectors and that they run the risk of remaining in the hands of the right if co-participation is applied there... we don’t understand now, when the production has been normalised, why there’s no workers’ control (even integrating the users of these public services). We analyse this retreat above all as a political concession to the conservative sectors by the government, and this with arguments like the one that Che Guevara was opposed to workers’ management in Yugoslavia, and others.
(...) [hmmm...] We, within the UNT, propose that the cooperatives should be able to be complementary. For us, the first instrument of organisation and participation is the trade union. Therefore we’re against a cooperativism that violates the collective negotiations or trade-union law. Many people are using the cooperatives as a form of turning jobs precarious, making them flexible, with subcontracts for a fixed period of time... Today the majority of cooperatives in the country are involved in this type of relation, where 4 or 5 people are owners of the cooperatives and make contracts with people for a limited time, with low wages and without trade union rights: they’re like “small businesses” ... This obviously contradicts what the government says about the construction of socialism.
(...) The first challenge will be finally, to make the holding of this national congress a reality. Because during the UNT founding congress, it was agreed to hold elections in order to elect a democratic leadership within the next year and to reform the statutes. And it’s been three years and it still hasn’t been possible to carry out the resolution of the congress: there are tendencies within the UNT that don’t want to submit to a referendum. The reform of the statutes will be designed to radically democratise our organisation, with the aim that elections can be held in May through direct and secret election in all the local organisations. If that happens we’ll be the first workers’ union in the world that will have an executive committee elected in such a way. The second challenge will be to ratify the character of the UNT: autonomous and independent of business, the state and the political parties.
(...) Yes, but there are strong pressures and there’s a tendency within it [the Bolivarian Workers’ Front – editor’s note] that demands “governmentism”, meaning that they have visions of appendices of the government.
(...) In short, we have to re-discuss our programme: take a position on the country’s internal and external debt and know if we demand a popular referendum in order to abolish it; for the formation of a club of debtors, to hoist the flag of our people’s sovereignty and self-determination, to take a position on the astronomical profits of the bank of Venezuela and the transnationals and to know whether we’ll raise the slogan of nationalisation, etc...
(...) At the grassroots, there’s a strong opposition to the bureaucratisation, the degeneration of these organisations, and the serious corruption of some of their members. As for us, we believe that it’s vital to prevent the loss of the advances that we’ve made, because that means nothing less than also taking care of the lives of many revolutionary leaders of this country, and basically the people of this country, who have devoted themselves, who have gone into the streets to defend the process. With this, I want to emphasise that our victories are not the fruit of the parties who have deputies in the congress.